Messianic Jewish Alliance of America Hosts Inspiration Ministries Televangelist

THE ROSH PINA PROJECT - March 24, 2010 The Messianic Jewish Alliance of America annualy hosts a “Messiah Conference” to build bridges between Messianic Jews and Christian leaders in America. But why is this Messiah Conference different from all other Messiah Conferences? Have a look at who’s speaking at Messiah 2010: [See Report w/ pics here] Messiah 2010 features David Cerullo and Chuck Pierce. Why is this embarassing? For starters, David Cerullo - along with Steve Munsey who is featured in this video - routinely misuse Passover to try to get donations from Christians: ... For Messianic Jews, is it profoundly saddening how the Inspiration network has misused the Tanakh for years to try to dupe viewers into giving them money. And it is a disgrace and an embarrassment that the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America should lend them authenticity by giving David Cerullo a platform. Cerullo can now use this performance as further “proof” of his sincerity when talking about “Jewish” issues. Chuck Pierce is also rather embarrasing. Here he is speaking in 2007 about how Malaysia would come to the world’s attention in 2008: ... By inviting Cerullo and Pierce, the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America is seriously compromising its integrity in the eyes of both the Christian church and the wider Jewish community - not to mention how this may affect the perception of Messianic Jews around the world. On the one hand, the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America affirms that Messianic Jews are Jews faithful to the true message of the Tanakh and the Jewish prophets. On the other hand, the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America promotes false “prophets” who manipulate the Tanakh for financial benefit. ... Edited :: See Original Report Here with videos http://roshpinaproject.wordpress.com/2010/03/24/messianic-jewish-alliance-of-america-hosts-inspiration-ministries-televangelist/ FAIR USE NOTICE: This blog contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of religious, environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

In Internet Era, an Unwilling Lord for New Age Followers

NEW YORK TIMES [NYTimes Group/Sulzberger] - By Scott James - February 4, 2010 Raj Patel’s desk sits in a dusty, cement-floored nook in his garage, just beyond a parked gray Prius, near the washer and dryer. They are humble surroundings for a god. “It is absurd to be put in this position, when I’m just some bloke,” Mr. Patel said. A native of London now living on Potrero Hill in San Francisco, Mr. Patel suddenly finds himself an unlikely object of worship, proclaimed the messiah Maitreya by followers of the New Age religious sect Share International. He was raised as a Hindu and had never heard of the group. He has no desire for deification. But he may not have a choice. Mr. Patel’s journey from ordinary person to unwilling lord is a case of having the wrong résumé at the wrong moment in history. For this is a time when human yearning to find a magical cure for the world’s woes can be harnessed to the digital age’s instant access to a vast treasure-trove of personal information. I have known Mr. Patel for four years - he keeps an office down the hall from mine. He is charming, and as a graduate of Oxford, Cornell University and the London School of Economics, he is considered brilliant, although he is self-effacing. He readily admits to being imperfectly human. People began to believe otherwise on Jan. 14 in London when Benjamin Creme, the leader of Share International, who is also known as the Master, proclaimed the arrival of Maitreya. The name of the deity has Buddhist roots, but in 1972, Mr. Creme prophesied the coming Maitreya as a messiah for all faiths called the World Teacher. Mr. Creme did not name the messiah, but he revealed clues that led his devotees to fire up their search engines on a digital scavenger hunt that would lead them to The One. About this time Mr. Patel was publicizing his new economics book, “The Value of Nothing.” With blogging, biographies and talk show appearances, the details of his life and views permeated the Internet ether. Crowds packed his readings, his book debuted on the New York Times best-seller list, and he appeared on “The Colbert Report” on Comedy Central. The Maitreya clues - his age (supposed to be born in 1972; Mr. Patel was), life experiences (supposed to have traveled from India to London in 1977; Mr. Patel was taken on a vacation there with his parents that year) race (supposed to be dark-skinned; Mr. Patel is Indian) and philosophies - all pointed to him. Some believe Maitreya will have a stutter. When Mr. Patel tripped over a few words when talking with Mr. Colbert, it was the final sign. “It became a flood,” said Mr. Patel, referring to a torrent of e-mail messages that asked: “Are you The One?” He removed the contact information from his Web site, but dozens of pages, discussion groups and videos have emerged online proclaiming his holiness. Mr. Patel has emphatically and publicly denied being Maitreya. Bad move. According to the predictions, “Maitreya will neither confirm, or will fail to confirm, he is Maitreya,” said Cher Gilmore, a spokeswoman for Share International. Ms. Gilmore said Mr. Creme would not say if he believed Mr. Patel was the messiah. Ben Shoucair, 24, a college student from Detroit, does not need more convincing. He said he saw Mr. Patel in a dream, and then was stunned to find a YouTube video and discover his vision was real. Last week, Mr. Shoucair and his father spent $990 on last-minute tickets to fly to San Francisco to be in Mr. Patel’s presence at a book promotion. Reached by phone this week, Mr. Shoucair said meeting Mr. Patel had made him “happy.” He said the Maitreya evidence was irrefutable. “It puts it all on Raj Patel at this time in history.” Mr. Shoucair seemed amazed when told that Mr. Patel did not believe he was the messiah and had never heard of Mr. Creme. “See how deep the spiritual world is,” Mr. Shoucair said. Mr. Patel said of their pilgrimage: “It broke my heart. They’d flown all the way from Detroit.” Share International’s beliefs are rooted in the Theosophical movement popular in Britain in the late-19th century; it later evolved into New Age beliefs, said Ted F. Peters of the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley. Messiahs have been declared before, only to disappoint. “It’s incredibly flattering, just for an instant,” Mr. Patel said of his unwanted status. “And then you realize what it means. People are looking for better times. Almost anything now will qualify as a portent of different times.” Unedited :: Link to Original Posting http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/us/05sfmetro.html?partner=rss&emc=rss FAIR USE NOTICE: This blog contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of religious, environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

Benny Hinn: 'I Would Not Do This for Money'

Evangelical Leader Under Senate Investigation Sits With 'Nightline' for Rare Interview ABC NEWS [American Broadcasting Companies, Inc./The Walt Disney Company] - By Dan Harris - October 19, 2009 Miraculous cures for cancer and AIDS, people in wheelchairs getting up and dancing. It's business as usual for Benny Hinn, perhaps the world's most famous, successful and controversial televangelist. Hinn is a faith-healer who almost never grants interviews -- until now. "I'll try to explain it to you," said Hinn in a wide-ranging interview with ABC's "Nightline." "The anointing, which is God's power, comes on me. ... I can actually feel it. And people start getting healed. 'From the cancer, the pain is gone. ... I was sitting on my wheelchair and I can walk now,' such things like that." Hinn took questions about disillusioned followers and about the U.S. senator who is investigating him. The questions clearly dismayed Hinn's handlers. He was born Toukif Benedictus Hinn to a Greek Orthodox Christian family living in Israel. As a child, he moved with his family to Canada, where he became an extremely devout evangelical. In his 20's, Hinn moved to Florida, where he married a preacher's daughter -- and then went into the family business. Hinn said he realized early on that something extraordinary was happening. "In fact, I was shocked, really I was, when people came up to me claiming they were healed back in the 70s," he said. "And the crowds grew. Uh to, goodness, we would have 2,000 or 3,000 show up on Monday nights. And then the word spread." Hinn's ministry exploded. Within a few years, he was traveling the world, preaching to millions of people. In the early '90s, he started a television show, which now airs in more than 200 countries. Along the way, he has made a series of truly extraordinary claims. In one video clip on YouTube, he said he had seen a dead man resurrected. "Well, Ghana. It was in Akra, Ghana," Hinn explained to "Nightline." "I didn't exactly ... I had no proof he was dead. That's what they told me. They laid him on the platform, and at one point he got up. But that's not the question, the question is, can God raise the dead? Yes or no? And the answer is yes. He has. It's in the Bible, so if God did it then, why shouldn't he do it today?" 'I Would Not Do This for Money' Benny Hinn now controls an empire. His ministry collects an estimated $100 million a year in donations from people whom Hinn has convinced that God heals through him. "Nightline" asked Hinn directly if he isn't taking advantage of people who are profoundly religious, and vulnerable because they're in physical pain, for his own personal enrichment. "I'm glad you're asking," Hinn said. "Let me tell you something. I would not do this for money. If people think I would do this for money, after all the misery I've had to go through..." "What misery?" I asked Hinn. "Oh dear God, what misery? You name it. You're a human being like me, how would you like to be called all those names. Who wants that? What you're asking is am I using the so-called lie, that healings really happen so I can make money? "Of course not. You cannot fool all the people all the time, right? ... "I will tell you this. I think that if I was fooling the people over 35 years of it now, I would be caught already fooling them." Hinn admits he doesn't have medical verification of any of the healings. In fact, some of his supposed healings have turned out not to have been real. At a 2001 Hinn crusade, William Vandenkolk, a 9-year-old with damaged vision, claimed that his eyesight had been restored. Vandenkolk is now 17 -- and he's still legally blind. His uncle and legal guardian, Randy Melthratter, said that after the crusade no one from the ministry followed up to see how the 9-year-old was doing. "I said, 'Will, honey, does it still seem like your eyes are getting better? Is it getting better? Do you notice anything better at all?' And he just kind of cocked his head to the side and said 'I think God's just taking a break,'" Melthratter said. "And that just tore, that just hurt. That hurt a lot ... a little boy making excuses for God." "I got caught up in the moment," Vandenkolk says now. "Being as young as I was, thinking this could actually be possible. ... I just started feeling sad a little upset that this really didn't happen." Hinn was at a loss. "These are things that I cannot explain because I am not the healer," Hinn said. "I am human like you. I make mistakes like anybody else." Hinn's answer is that God heals people in their seats, and that he, Hinn, is not responsible for what people claim once they get onstage. "Over the years, there's been some cases where people did come up who said they were healed, but really they were not healed," Hinn said. "I do believe it's possible for individuals to mentally convince themselves they are, but that does not deny the real healings. That doesn't dismiss the fact that a lot of people are really cured." Hinn Ministries told "Nightline" that they set up an account in Vandenkolk's name that now holds more than $15,000, to provide for his "education and health." Hinn may be more confident than the team that surrounds him. Over the course of the "Nightline" interview with Hinn, his publicist started to interrupt, angrily. The atmosphere got charged when talk turned to an ongoing probe of Hinn by U.S. Senator Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa. Two years ago, Grassley launched an investigation into six major televangelists, including Hinn. Grassley is asking whether Hinn and his colleagues are using tax-free donations from believers to fund lavish lifestyles. Hinn, for example, flies on a private jet and has lived in a beautiful home on the Pacific Ocean. 'Every Man of God ... Has a Nice House' Hinn had never before granted an interview on the topic of the investigation. He said he was "absolutely" confident that he is using the money appropriately. In response to criticism that he leads a lavish lifestyle, Hinn said, "it's always been that by the way. That criticism is nothing new." He flies in a private plane, stays in fancy hotels, wears nice clothes and jewelry. Does he not have any misgivings about that? "No. Look, you know there's this idea supposedly that we preachers are supposed to walk about with sandals and ride bicycles. That's nonsense." Jesus Christ may have lived in poverty, but Benny Hinn makes no apologies for living large. "I mean look, every man of God that I know today has a nice house," Hinn said. "And they drive cars, and they have BlackBerrys or iPhones or whatever. It's what we need today to simply exist. ... Absolutely I need a private plane. For the ministry it's a necessity, not a luxury. ... It's a necessity for me to have my own private plane to fly so I can go and do what God called me to do around the world. If I should fly commercial I would wear out. With my schedule? It would be madness." What is his salary? I asked. "I'm not gonna give you the exact amount, but it's, uh, over a half-million." Hinn said he'd like to cut his salary to zero. "Let me just tell you this, my aim in life is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, that's all I care about," said Hinn. "And if somebody comes along, or if there's a way where I can be completely taken care of financially, I won't let the ministry pay me a cent. I'll make you a deal. Right here on camera. Let 'em all see me do this with you. If somebody comes along and says, 'OK Benny Hinn, I'm gonna help you financially so you can pay your own bills,' or if I can do it on my own and get a job and do something on the side like I'm doing now, it would be a pleasure." "Nightline" asked Hinn whether he ever had moments, when people are writing out checks to him or filling out cards with their credit card information, that he thinks the people can't afford it, they're doing it because they're desperate and that he shouldn't take this money. "If I was fake I would absolutely give them back their money," said Hinn, "but I believe that God called me to preach the gospel which is very important." Grassley's office said that Hinn has cooperated fully with the investigation into whether Hinn and other televangelist are using the tax-free donations they collect appropriately. The senator has not yet released the results of his investigation. "The senator himself says we gave them more information than he thought we would," said Hinn. But when "Nightline" asked for the same information, Hinn said the ministry could not turn it over because "we have an agreement with the senator to keep things confidential." After the interview, Grassley's office told ABC News that Hinn is free to release any information he wants. But the ministry said it didn't have time to edit out personal information from its donors in time for "Nightline"'s broadcast. And therefore the ministry turned over nothing. But Hinn said he was glad to get the chance to answer his skeptics. "The questions [you] asked me, I've wanted someone to ask me for the last 20 years of my life," Hinn told me. "I think what this man did is fantastic and thank you for doing it. No, really, I'm very pleased. ... because it's time for me to tell it all. I don't want people talking for me. I want to talk for myself." http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=8862027 FAIR USE NOTICE: This blog contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of religious, environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

AP IMPACT: Relatives of televangelist prosper

ASSOCIATED PRESS - By Eric Gorski - July 26, 2008 Here in the gentle hills of north Texas, televangelist Kenneth Copeland has built a religious empire teaching that God wants his followers to prosper. Over the years, a circle of Copeland's relatives and friends have done just that, The Associated Press has found. They include the brother-in-law with a lucrative deal to broker Copeland's television time, the son who acquired church-owned land for his ranching business and saw it more than quadruple in value, and board members who together have been paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for speaking at church events. Church officials say no one improperly benefits through ties to Copeland's vast evangelical ministry, which claims more than 600,000 subscribers in 134 countries to its flagship "Believer's Voice of Victory" magazine. The board of directors signs off on important matters, they say. Yet church bylaws give Copeland veto power over board decisions. While Copeland insists that his ministry complies with the law, independent tax experts who reviewed information obtained by the AP through interviews, church documents and public records have their doubts. The web of companies and non-profits tied to the televangelist calls the ministry's integrity into question, they say. "There are far too many relatives here," said Frances Hill, a University of Miami law professor who specializes in nonprofit tax law. "There's too much money sloshing around and too much of it sloshing around with people with overlapping affiliations and allegiances by either blood or friendship or just ties over the years. There are red flags all over these relationships." Copeland, 71, is a pioneer of the prosperity gospel, which holds that believers are destined to flourish spiritually, physically and financially — and share the wealth with others. His ministry's 1,500-acre campus, behind an iron gate a half-hour drive from Forth Worth, is testament to his success. It includes a church, a private airstrip, a hangar for the ministry's $17.5 million jet and other aircraft, and a $6 million church-owned lakefront mansion. Already a well-known figure, Copeland has come under greater scrutiny in recent months. He is one target of a Senate Finance Committee investigation into allegations of questionable spending and lax financial accountability at six large televangelist organizations that preach health-and-wealth theology. All have denied wrongdoing. But Copeland has fought back the hardest, refusing to answer most questions from the inquiry's architect, Republican Sen. Charles Grassley of Iowa. Copeland's church also has invited an Internal Revenue Service audit, which would keep information private, and has launched a sophisticated Web site, Believers Stand United, to "help set the record straight." The Senate committee didn't set out to determine whether Copeland or the others broke the law, although it could provide information to the Internal Revenue Service if something seems flagrantly wrong, a committee aide said. The main goal, Grassley has said, is to figure out whether existing tax laws governing churches are adequate, which could carry sweeping implications for all religious organizations. The committee could subpoena Copeland if he remains uncooperative. Neither he nor John Copeland, his son and the ministry's chief executive officer, responded to interview requests. But Lawrence Swicegood, spokesman for Kenneth Copeland Ministries, said in written responses to questions that no Copeland family members receive improper benefits through their ties to the church. All revenue from the church's business interests — including an oil and natural gas company it owns — go into the church, Swicegood said. He said that Kenneth Copeland has never exercised his veto power over board decisions, a provision meant for emergency use. Even so, Swicegood said, the board is scheduled to meet in August to vote on taking away that ability. ____ Kenneth Copeland has always dreamed big. Growing up in West Texas next to an Army air base, Copeland wanted to fly. He also wanted to sing pop songs. He realized both ambitions and didn't stop there. In 1957, when he was 20, Copeland scored a Top 40 hit called "Pledge of Love" and sang on "American Bandstand." The journey that led to the pulpit began several years later. Copeland had a born-again experience and enrolled at Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Okla. He worked as a pilot and chauffeur for Roberts himself. Copeland was greatly influenced by Tulsa prosperity preacher Kenneth Hagin, locking himself in the garage with Hagin's tapes for seven days before moving back to Texas to start his ministry in the late 1960s. Now a 500-employee operation with a budget in the tens of millions of dollars, Kenneth Copeland Ministries has won supporters worldwide through its crusades and conferences, prayer request network, disaster relief work, magazine and television program. Kenneth Copeland Ministries is organized under the tax code as a church, so it gets a layer of privacy not afforded large secular and religious nonprofit groups that must disclose budgets and salaries. Pastors' pay must be "reasonable" under the federal tax code, a term that gives churches wide latitude. Copeland's current salary is not made public by his ministry. However, the church disclosed in a property-tax exemption application that his wages were $364,577 in 1995; Copeland's wife, Gloria, earned $292,593. It's not clear whether those figures include other earnings, such as special offerings for guest preaching or book royalties. Another 13 Copeland relatives were on the church's payroll that year. In the 1980s, Copeland's church purchased land on the shores of Eagle Mountain Lake from the estate of a Texas oilman. Afterward, it discovered added value underground: an oil and gas field. Grassley, the senator leading the televangelist inquiry, has quizzed Copeland about Security Petrol Inc., a wholly owned — and for-profit — subsidiary of the church created in 1997 to manage that resource. Swicegood said Security Petrol was established to protect the church from the liability risk of oil and gas production and to minimize interference with the church's religious activities. No company officials — including John Copeland, its president — has received compensation or profits from the company, and all revenue goes to the church for general operations, Swicegood said. Reserves from gas wells in the church's name were valued at $23 million last year, county records show. Speaking at a ministers' conference in January, Kenneth Copeland accused Grassley of twisting reality to make it look like the natural gas "was making us rich off of the ministry's property. Bull. That's stupid." It's not the only business venture tied to the church. While natural gas platforms sprouted on church land, John Copeland, a self-described "cowboy at heart," pursued a side business in cattle and horses. Beginning in 1993, John Copeland leased church land to run his business, El Rancho Fe, Spanish for "Ranch of Faith." Five years later, the church separately sold John Copeland land for his ranch and residence, Swicegood said. Swicegood said appraisals were done to determine fair market value for leasing and selling the land, adding that the lease benefits the church. John Copeland must improve the land, and county officials confirmed the church gets a roughly $100,000 annual tax break for putting it to agricultural use. The church board approved the transactions. While the purchase price is not public record, the 33-acre property would have been worth about $93,000 that year, said John Marshall, executive director of the Tarrant Appraisal District. The land is now valued at $554,160 by the district. Until recently, El Rancho Fe sold registered American Quarter Horses and three other horse breeds. On its Web site, convenient location and the integrity of the Copeland name were used as selling points. "We are a family you know and a family you trust," it said. John Copeland and his wife, Marty, no longer sell horses but continue to operate the cattle business, Swicegood said. Ellen Aprill, a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles and a former U.S. Treasury Department official, said leasing and selling land to the church's top executive raises concerns. Under IRS rules, nonprofits can be penalized or lose their tax-exempt status if an executive, board member or other insider receives an economic benefit above and beyond what the organization gets in return. "The church and its board must take great care to make sure the payments are fair to the church," Aprill said. "The church says it does. But is not clear how we can know." ___ Located in an office complex in a north Dallas suburb, Integrity Media is the kind of company that plays a little-known but important role in the world of televangelism: negotiating the purchase of television time for Christian ministries. Douglas Neece, the company's president, said Kenneth Copeland Ministries is Integrity Media's biggest client, accounting for just over 50 percent of its business. Neece is Kenneth Copeland's brother-in-law. Neece's son, Joel, also works for the company. The church's board was informed of Neece's relationship to the Copelands, Swicegood said. Their television time is bought at market rates and the ministry gets a discount from Integrity Media, he said. Douglas Neece said his company charges a "deeply discounted" commission below the industry standard of 15 percent. "We earn our money," Neece said. "That's just the way it is. "We have nothing to hide." The money involved is substantial. In a 1997 filing in Tarrant County, Copeland's church said it paid a "related party" $22 million for "telecast and mass media expense" that year and received a discount of $1.7 million on the transaction. Similar figures were cited for 1996. Integrity Media, meanwhile, is the parent company to a horse-breeding operation and real estate company that owns a Learjet, records show. Although they are wholly owned subsidiaries of Integrity Media, Neece played down the connections. "The subsidiaries don't have anything to do with the media-buying corporation," he said. "We've had several through the years, and these things are not connected with the Copeland ministry." Whatever the venture — whether it's buying TV time, land deals with a church executive or natural gas wells — Kenneth Copeland Ministries cites its 11-member board of directors as an important check on the organization's integrity. Kenneth Copeland serves as board chairman, and his wife, Gloria, is a board member. Records show other members include or have included fellow televangelists Jesse Duplantis, Mac and Lynne Hammond, and Jerry and Carolyn Savelle; Oklahoma architect Loyal Furry; retired Texas pastor Harold Nichols; and Arkansas businessman John Best. As chairman, Copeland has veto power over any resolution he deems "not in the best financial or operational interests of the Church or not in furtherance of the nonprofit religious purposes of the Church," church bylaws say. Such veto power is highly unusual, say academics who study nonprofits. Swicegood said the provision was meant to give Copeland emergency power to prevent the church from doing anything "repugnant to its Christian purposes and mission" — although the bylaws don't lay that out. Swicegood said the church plans to remove that provision and adopt others that "reflect contemporary best practices in nonprofit governance." Board member Best, in a written response to questions, said he's received "100 percent accessibility to anything I wanted to see and have always seen the highest level of integrity and honesty." Other board members either declined comment, did not respond to interview requests or could not be located. The church has emphasized that board members act in the church's best interest. Some board members, however, receive a perk that experts like Hill, of the University of Miami, said undermines their independence. While board members don't get salaries, some who are ministers get paid for speaking at church events through offerings and honorariums, Swicegood confirmed. The sums involved are usually kept secret. But in seeking tax exemption for its aircraft fleet in the late 1990s, the church revealed that it paid board members a total of $87,000 in "cash contributions" and almost $1 million in honorariums and "benefit purposes" in 1996 and '97. Swicegood said the church's independent compensation committee approves all payments to board members. Marilyn Phelan, a Texas Tech University law professor and author on nonprofit law, said the practice could pose problems in an IRS audit. Both the IRS and Texas state law prohibit benefits beyond reasonable compensation for insiders, including board members, she said. If violations are found, nonprofits can lose their tax-exempt status and board members can face penalty taxes. As the Senate Finance Committee considers its next step, Copeland is not backing down. His ministry is portraying the inquiry as an attack on religious liberty. At the same time, it is moving forward with a big fund-raising project: soliciting donations for new television equipment so Copeland can be broadcast in high-definition. ___ Eric Gorski can be reached at egorski(at)ap.org. AP researcher Rhonda Shafner contributed to this story.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080726/ap_on_re_us/rel_prosperity_preacher

FAIR USE NOTICE: This blog contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of religious, environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

Eagle's Nest pastor sued by ex-member

Article Title: Eagle's Nest pastor sued by ex-member Source: SAN ANTONIO EXPRESS-NEWS [Hearst Corporation] - By Abe Levy - May 22, 2008 Link: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/TopStories/stories/MYSA.052208.1B.EaglesNest.37bcf1d.html A former member of Eagle's Nest Christian Fellowship filed a lawsuit Wednesday against the church and its pastor, Rick Godwin, claiming he was defamed in front of the congregation when he tried to expose how Godwin was spending church money. Larry Nail, a businessman from Boerne who belonged to the church for 11 years, says Godwin wrongly accused him of bribery in a speech responding to San Antonio Express-News articles that, based on church documents, raised questions about Godwin's use of church funds for expensive chartered planes and lodging, luxury gifts and personal items. In the suit, filed in Bexar County District Court, Nail wants his donations to the church returned, plus legal costs and damages. The suit didn't specify an amount. Nail is among dozens of church members who've left the independent congregation since the fall, dissatisfied with Godwin's spending and what they consider the church's inadequate accountability. Godwin and other church leaders believe the issue has been addressed. The suit comes three days before the church will conduct a “dry run” dedication of its new North Side building on Marshall Road near U.S. 281. The official dedication is set for the weekend of May 31. Complicating matters for the church has been a stream of complaints by homeowners bordering the new property who claim the church hasn't responded to their concerns about lighting, noise and other matters. At issue in Nail's lawsuit is a statement by Godwin during a Nov. 24 service. Nail says Godwin claimed he offered bribes to three staff members to discuss the pastor's spending publicly with the newspaper, which Nail denies. Nail declined to comment Wednesday. The suit claims Godwin used “a classic bully pulpit” to accuse Nail of the crime of bribery and other wrongdoing as a means of shifting the attention away from the spending questions Godwin was facing. “This psychological and spiritual abuse by Godwin toward Nail demonstrated the depths to which Godwin would sink to deflect attention from his extreme misuse of his position and of the trust placed in him by Nail and others,” the suit said. Contacted about the suit Wednesday, the church's attorney, J.D. Pauerstein, declined to comment until he could discuss the matter with church leaders. A message left with a church official wasn't returned. The spending Nail refers to in the suit involved a fund set aside for outreach and missions. After the newspaper reports, Godwin told the congregation he paid back all personal expenses and launched a new tax compliance audit, among other corrective measures. He hasn't made public when or which reimbursements were made. Nail founded a mentoring ministry for boys with absent fathers called Brave Heart at the church and was a friend of Godwin and his wife, Cindy, the church's co-pastor. Nail said in the suit that church staffers were afraid of losing their jobs if they confronted church leaders about Godwin's questionable expenses. He said he offered to help them financially if they were fired and followed biblical instruction by taking the spending concerns to Godwin first and then to two elders, who were unwilling to confront Godwin. According to the lawsuit, Nail said Godwin told him: “I'm not going to let someone eating a bologna sandwich (referring to church staff and lower-level employees) tell me how to spend money around here.” Godwin also asserted that, as the chief executive of the church, he deserved perks, Nail says in the suit. After the falling-out between Nail and Godwin, the pastor told the congregation in November: “These are despicable acts of behavior by desperate people who will go to any measure including slander, intimidation and, if you can believe it, bribery. Our staff was insulted and outraged by Larry's behavior. It goes beyond Christian comprehension.” Nail's attorney is Gary L. Richardson of Tulsa, Okla., who also represents two former Oral Roberts University professors whose lawsuit against the private Christian school has drawn national attention for its claim of financial and spiritual abuse by the school's leaders. “The conduct we believe will show that there was some wrongdoing by the pastor,” Richardson said by phone. “There were things said about Larry publicly that we believe the evidence would show are not true.” Asked whether the court has jurisdiction in such a church dispute, he said the case “has nothing to do with freedom of religion.” David Anderson, a University of Texas School of Law professor specializing in defamation cases, said that sometimes, church leaders claim their statements and actions are protected by constitutional guarantees of religious freedom when the matter is clearly theological in nature. “If the resolution of the lawsuit requires the resolution of some theological question, only then is there any problem of the courts taking jurisdiction in the matter,” he said. However, Anderson said, noting he has not read Nail's lawsuit, the use of the term “bribery” is entirely secular and could result in the suit being litigated. Anderson added that churches could also argue “group privilege” as a defense, meaning that the pastor's statement — despite its potential to defame — was made in good faith and as part of internal issues the church needed to discuss for its benefit. Saturday, the 24-year-old church will hold its first services in the new building — 172,000 square feet of space on 68 acres of land and estimated to cost $36 million. Its official dedication the next weekend will mark its name change to Summit Christian Center. On June 7, Cornerstone Church pastor John Hagee is scheduled to speak. The church's existing buildings on nearly 9 acres at Bitters Road and U.S. 281 are under contract and were listed for $4.5 million, according to the Realtor's Web site. The new building has concert lighting and sound, a food court, and an 1,800-light Venetian-style carousel from the former Central Park Mall. Godwin and his wife have executive offices on one wing with a private elevator and garage. The building will seat 2,500 people initially with the capacity to double later, making it equal to the largest sanctuaries in the city, including Hagee's church. Godwin has said he plans to rent the facility for concerts and other community events to produce a new revenue source for the church. It is situated in a rapidly growing area of high-priced homes, retail development and a new high school named for Lady Bird Johnson. Construction began in October 2006 and so did complaints from neighboring homeowners in Sendero Ranch, which borders the church property to the north. The outdoor lighting and noise from the large air conditioners have been the subject of several meetings and correspondence between homeowners and church leaders. The homeowners say they're frustrated that Godwin has not responded directly and sent representatives instead. “I would have thought that a benevolent establishment such as a church would work with homeowners,” said Gina Weikel, whose backyard borders the property. “I would have thought that they would like to provide a harmonious relationship and garner new members to the congregation. My beliefs were wrong.” In a letter to the homeowners, the church said it is committed to being good neighbors but that it satisfied all legal requirements in constructing the church. The land, zoned commercially, lies just outside the city limit, where there are fewer development rules. http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/TopStories/stories/MYSA.052208.1B.EaglesNest.37bcf1d.html FAIR USE NOTICE: This blog contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of religious, environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

Baucus joins Grassley in follow-up letter to ministries

Article Title: Baucus joins Grassley in follow-up letter to ministries Source: THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS [A. H. Belo Corporation/Belo Group] - Religion Blog by Sam Hodges - March 12, 2008 Link: http://religionblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/03/baucus-joins-grassley-in-follo.html Sen Max Baucus, chairman of the Finance Commitee, has joined ranking member Sen. Charles Grassley in writing four ministries, urging them to comply with Grassley's earlier request for financial information. This would suggest that Grassley's probe of the finances of the ministries, including the one run by Kenneth Copeland of the Fort Worth area, isn't going away and enjoys at least some support by Baucus. Here's a press release from the Finance Committe. After that come letters from the senators to four non-complying ministries, including Copeland's. For Immediate Release Wednesday, March 12, 2008 Grassley, Baucus Urge Four Ministries to Cooperate with Information Request WASHINGTON - Sen. Max Baucus, chairman of the Committee on Finance, and Sen. Chuck Grassley, ranking member, have written to four ministries to urge cooperation with an earlier information request from Grassley. Baucus and Grassley lead the committee with exclusive Senate jurisdiction over tax policy; the ministry inquiry that Grassley launched last November is meant to gauge the effectiveness of certain tax-exempt policies. "This ought to clear up any misunderstanding about our interest and the committee's role," Grassley said. "We have an obligation to oversee how the tax laws are working for both tax-exempt organizations and taxpayers. Just like with reviews of other tax-exempt organizations in recent years, I look forward to the cooperation of these ministries in the weeks and months ahead." Grassley wrote to six ministries on Nov. 5, 2007, asking a series of questions on the non-profit organizations' expenses, treatment of donations and business practices. The questions were based on presentations of material from watchdog groups and whistleblowers and on investigative reports in local media outlets. One of the six ministries - Joyce Meyer Ministries of Fenton, Mo. - has cooperated substantially with his request and provided the requested information. Benny Hinn Ministries of Grapevine, Texas, has indicated a willingness to cooperate and provided answers to five of the 28 questions so far. Representatives for Randy and Paula White of Without Walls International Church/Paula White Ministries, Tampa, Fla., verbally have indicated to Finance Committee staff that they will cooperate. Baucus and Grassley wrote to them on March 11 to thank them for the verbal commitment and to reiterate the committee's role. The remaining three ministries have not cooperated, citing privacy protections or questioning the committee's standing to request the information. Baucus and Grassley wrote to them on March 11 to describe the committee's jurisdiction and role in determining the effectiveness of tax policy developed by the committee, distinct from the Internal Revenue Service's role, which is to enforce existing law. The three ministries are: Kenneth and Gloria Copeland of Kenneth Copeland Ministries, Newark, Texas; Creflo and Taffi Dollar of World Changers Church International/Creflo Dollar Ministries College Park, Ga.; and Eddie L. Long of New Birth Missionary Baptist Church/Eddie L. Long Ministries, Lithonia, Ga. The committee's jurisdiction includes the federal tax policy governing the billions of dollars donated to and controlled by the nation's tax-exempt groups. The federal government forgoes the collection of billions of dollars to tax-exempt organizations every year. The text of the March 11 follow-up letters to the four ministries follows here. The text of the Grassley Nov. 5, 2007, letters to the six ministries is available at finance.senate.gov. March 11, 2008 Kenneth and Gloria Copeland Kenneth Copeland Ministries 14355 Morris Dido Road Newark, TX 76071 Dear Mr. and Mrs. Copeland: As senior members of the United States Senate and as Chairman and Ranking Member of the Committee on Finance, it is our duty under the Constitution to conduct oversight into matters related to legislation enacted by Congress. The purpose of oversight is to determine how well a particular agency of the executive branch is administering legislation enacted by Congress, if a particular law or section of the law is being administered in a manner consistent with the intent of Congress and what changes might be required to a law to improve and enhance it. Oversight through the committee system is an important way for Congress to determine if the laws of this country are sound and if they are administered according to the intent of Congress. One of the roles of the Finance Committee under the Standing Rules of the Senate encompasses the exercise of oversight over the administration of the federal tax revenue system by the Internal Revenue Service to make sure that its rules and procedures meet the purpose and intent of the revenue code, including those rules applicable to non-profit organizations. In order to do this effectively, the Committee needs to understand clearly and specifically how non-profit organizations are structured and operate. On November 5, 2007, Ranking Member Grassley sent a letter requesting information from your ministry related to the laws that govern tax-exempt organizations. While the inquiry is not part of an enforcement action, which would properly belong to the IRS, it is within the jurisdiction of the Committee to make these inquiries. The Committee conferred with the Senate Legal Counsel to ensure that the letter was well within the scope of the authority of the Committee and that it does not infringe upon First Amendment rights. Prior to your organization determining whether to submit the requested information, Committee staff members met with your legal counsel to explain the purpose of the investigation and to address your specific concerns. The Committee recognizes the concerns regarding the privacy and confidentiality of certain records and has offered to work with your organization to protect any proprietary or confidential information. Unfortunately, the information submitted by your organization was incomplete. Staff members contacted your legal counsel in an attempt to secure further cooperation and once again address your concerns. To date, you and/or your legal counsel have not provided the requested information to Senator Grassley, nor offered any assurances that the information would be forthcoming. The Committee continues to hope that mutually respectful discussions will enable the Committee to obtain the requested information without resorting to compulsory process. Therefore, as Chairman and Ranking Member of the Committee on Finance, we are affording you another opportunity to send the information requested by Senator Grassley in the letter dated November 5, 2007. Our office should receive the requested documentation no later than March 31, 2008. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter, and we look forward to your cooperation. Sincerely, Max Baucus Charles Grassley Chairman Ranking Member The same exact letter is addressed verbatum to the following: Bishop Eddie L. Long New Birth Missionary Baptist Church Eddie L. Long Ministries 6400 Woodrow Road Lithonia, GA 30038 Randy and Paula White Without Walls International Church Paula White Ministries 2511 North Grady Avenue Tampa, FL 33607 BE/\LERT! FAIR USE NOTICE: This blog contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of religious, environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

A Shocking “Confession” from Willow Creek Community Church

The Falling Away CROSSWALK [Salem Communications Corporation] - By Bob Burney - October 30, 2007 If you are older than 40 the name Benjamin Spock is more than familiar. It was Spock that told an entire generation of parents to take it easy, don’t discipline your children and allow them to express themselves. Discipline, he told us, would warp a child’s fragile ego. Millions followed this guru of child development and he remained unchallenged among child rearing professionals. However, before his death Dr. Spock made an amazing discovery: he was wrong. In fact, he said: We have reared a generation of brats. Parents aren't firm enough with their children for fear of losing their love or incurring their resentment. This is a cruel deprivation that we professionals have imposed on mothers and fathers. Of course, we did it with the best of intentions. We didn't realize until it was too late how our know-it-all attitude was undermining the self assurance of parents. Oops. Something just as momentous, in my opinion, just happened in the evangelical community. For most of a generation evangelicals have been romanced by the “seeker sensitive” movement spawned by Willow Creek Community Church in Chicago. The guru of this movement is Bill Hybels. He and others have been telling us for decades to throw out everything we have previously thought and been taught about church growth and replace it with a new paradigm, a new way to do ministry. Perhaps inadvertently, with this “new wave” of ministry came a de-emphasis on taking personal responsibility for Bible study combined with an emphasis on felt-needs based “programs” and slick marketing. The size of the crowd rather than the depth of the heart determined success. If the crowd was large then surely God was blessing the ministry. Churches were built by demographic studies, professional strategists, marketing research, meeting “felt needs” and sermons consistent with these techniques. We were told that preaching was out, relevance was in. Doctrine didn’t matter nearly as much as innovation. If it wasn’t “cutting edge” and consumer friendly it was doomed. The mention of sin, salvation and sanctification were taboo and replaced by Starbucks, strategy and sensitivity. Thousands of pastors hung on every word that emanated from the lips of the church growth experts. Satellite seminars were packed with hungry church leaders learning the latest way to “do church.” The promise was clear: thousands of people and millions of dollars couldn’t be wrong. Forget what people need, give them what they want. How can you argue with the numbers? If you dared to challenge the “experts” you were immediately labeled as a “traditionalist,” a throwback to the 50s, a stubborn dinosaur unwilling to change with the times. All that changed recently. Willow Creek has released the results of a multi-year study on the effectiveness of their programs and philosophy of ministry. The study’s findings are in a new book titled Reveal: Where Are You?, co-authored by Cally Parkinson and Greg Hawkins, executive pastor of Willow Creek Community Church. Hybels himself called the findings “earth shaking,” “ground breaking” and “mind blowing.” And no wonder: it seems that the “experts” were wrong. The report reveals that most of what they have been doing for these many years and what they have taught millions of others to do is not producing solid disciples of Jesus Christ. Numbers yes, but not disciples. It gets worse. Hybels laments: Some of the stuff that we have put millions of dollars into thinking it would really help our people grow and develop spiritually, when the data actually came back it wasn’t helping people that much. Other things that we didn’t put that much money into and didn’t put much staff against is stuff our people are crying out for. If you simply want a crowd, the “seeker sensitive” model produces results. If you want solid, sincere, mature followers of Christ, it’s a bust. In a shocking confession, Hybels states: We made a mistake. What we should have done when people crossed the line of faith and become Christians, we should have started telling people and teaching people that they have to take responsibility to become ‘self feeders.’ We should have gotten people, taught people, how to read their bible between services, how to do the spiritual practices much more aggressively on their own. Incredibly, the guru of church growth now tells us that people need to be reading their bibles and taking responsibility for their spiritual growth. Just as Spock’s “mistake” was no minor error, so the error of the seeker sensitive movement is monumental in its scope. The foundation of thousands of American churches is now discovered to be mere sand. The one individual who has had perhaps the greatest influence on the American church in our generation has now admitted his philosophy of ministry, in large part, was a “mistake.” The extent of this error defies measurement. Perhaps the most shocking thing of all in this revelation coming out of Willow Creek is in a summary statement by Greg Hawkins: Our dream is that we fundamentally change the way we do church. That we take out a clean sheet of paper and we rethink all of our old assumptions. Replace it with new insights. Insights that are informed by research and rooted in Scripture. Our dream is really to discover what God is doing and how he’s asking us to transform this planet. Isn’t that what we were told when this whole seeker-sensitive thing started? The church growth gurus again want to throw away their old assumptions and “take out a clean sheet of paper” and, presumably, come up with a new paradigm for ministry. Should this be encouraging? Please note that “rooted in Scripture” still follows “rethink,” “new insights” and “informed research.” Someone, it appears, still might not get it. Unless there is a return to simple biblical (and relevant) principles, a new faulty scheme will replace the existing one and another generation will follow along as the latest piper plays. What we should find encouraging, at least, in this “confession” coming from the highest ranks of the Willow Creek Association is that they are coming to realize that their existing “model” does not help people grow into mature followers of Jesus Christ. Given the massive influence this organization has on the American church today, let us pray that God would be pleased to put structures in place at Willow Creek that foster not mere numeric growth, but growth in grace. http://www.crosswalk.com/news/commentary/11558438/page2/ FAIR USE NOTICE: This blog contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of religious, environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

Rick Warren: 'I always own up to mistakes'

The Falling Away - False Teachers - Evangelicals Riding the Beast 'Purpose-driven' megachurch pastor answers evangelical critics EDITOR'S NOTE: This is the first of a three-part series based on an interview with Rick Warren at his Saddleback Church in Southern California, which he and his wife of 30 years, Kay, founded in 1980 with one family. In part one, Warren responds to critics among his fellow evangelical travelers. In part two, published tomorrow, the senior pastor – called by Newsweek one of "15 People Who Make America Great" – discusses how he handles fame, his unconventional approach to ministry and his visit last year with Syrian leader Bashar Assad. In part three, he responds to concerns about the pitfalls of partnering with government and his massive AIDS initiative. WORLDNETDAILY - By Art Moore - December 11, 2007 LAKE FOREST, Calif. – Widely regarded by mainstream media as one of America's most influential leaders, he's met with dictators, apologized to Muslims on behalf of Christianity, accepted blame for global warming and invited pro-choice politicians to speak at his Southern California megachurch. All of that, and more, raises red flags with a sizeable number of evangelicals who share the traditional theological and social views of Rick Warren's Southern Baptist roots. The blue jeans-clad pastor of 22,000-strong Saddleback Church in Orange County says that with guidance from Billy Graham, he has intentionally tried to avoid engaging his critics. But on the heels of an appearance by Democratic Sen. Hillary Clinton at his church's conference on AIDS, he welcomed the opportunity to sit down and talk with WND. Obvious to anyone who visits the 120-acre resort-style campus of Saddleback Church and begins to grasp the scope of its worldwide ministry, Warren is a grand visionary, with a coalition of congregations in 167 countries, training of more than 500,000 ministers, 2,800 home groups and 7,500 sent on missions teams in the past three years – not to mention a global "P.E.A.C.E. plan. And he admitted he often has been willing to overlook details in which some find the devil. The 53-year-old author of "The Purpose-Driven Life," the best-selling hardback book of all time, also confesses to impulsiveness, which sometimes has led to trouble. "Without a doubt," he told WND. "I make mistakes all the time." But he added, "I always own up to mistakes that I actually do. I just won't own up to mistakes that weren't really a mistake." Many false claims, he contended, have taken on a life of their own on Internet blogs, such as assertions he was mentored by positive-thinking pastor Robert Schuller and influenced by Norman Vincent Peale. The claims often are tied to criticism he's preaching a watered-down, pop-psychology gospel of self-esteem and "easy believism." "I've only met Robert Schuller twice, I believe. I've never had a one-on-one conversation with him. Not once. So how do I even know him?" Warren said, adding he's never even read a book by Peale. Small groups and intensive discipleship are the heart of Saddleback, he argued, with weekends oriented toward reaching the unchurched. But he, nevertheless, insists his preaching regularly focuses on weighty subjects, such as sanctification, noting, as one example, he took two and a half years to teach through the book of Romans. "People don't know this," he said. "They think I'm teaching on stress every week." Ultimately, the fourth-generation pastor – whose great-grandfather was converted under legendary evangelist Charles Spurgeon – says there is one simple truth that best explains his often unconventional approach to ministry and frequent ventures into controversial relationships and associations. "People don't understand that I am fundamentally, foremost an evangelist," he told WND. "It's what I care about. I don't care about politics, I don't care about political correctness, I don't care about what established groups want me to do. I care about getting people into heaven." Pointing to his baptism last weekend of a founder of the radical homosexual-rights group ACT UP, Warren explained he is "trying to build bridges of love to different groups of people so that Jesus Christ can walk across into their life." "I'm willing to put up with the misunderstanding. I'm willing to have people go, 'Ohh, he's such a politically naive guy.' Or, he's a pawn to be used," Warren said. He paraphrased Graham – himself the frequent target of criticism for his political forays – who often has said, "People may think you're being used, but I'm using the gospel, getting the gospel out." Warren, recognized by U.S. News and World Report as one of "America's Top 25 Leaders," has taken advantage of opportunities to speak at influential venues such as the United Nations, World Economic Forum, Council on Foreign Relations, African Union and Harvard's Kennedy School of Government. Ultimately, he argues his motivation can be found in the teachings of Jesus, who said, "I'm to love my enemies. That means I'm to love people who are totally opposed to me." Loving your enemies But many of his fellow evangelicals argue the best way to love enemies is to graciously confront them with the truth. Last month, Warren drew some fire for signing a dialogue-seeking letter in which Christian theologians and ministers responded to an initiative by 138 Muslim leaders by apologizing for the medieval Crusades and "excesses in the war on terror." Asked specifically which excesses he had in mind, Warren replied: "Ahhh, you know what … I have no idea," he said. "Because I didn't sign it sentence-by-sentence." Similar to his endorsement of an initiative acknowledging man-made global warming, Warren said, "There might have been statements there I didn't agree with, but generally I'm saying, I think it's a good idea to get people talking." "It comes back to," he said, referring to the letter to Muslims, "I am a pastor, not a politician. And what I've learned is that, in marriage if I'm trying to keep a divorce from happening … I've found as long as I can get the husband and wife talking, they're not going to divorce. The moment the talking stops the divorce is inevitable." Warren insisted he's "not a Pollyanna, thinking getting different interfaith groups together is going to bring world peace." "We know that isn't going to happen," he said. "It just isn't going to happen. That's not what the Scripture says." All religions are not alike, he emphasized, and one can't be a Christian and adhere to any other faith. But he argued, "There's a difference between compromise and civility." As long as I'm talking with my enemy, Warren said, "he's not sending a bomb my way. "Don't think that you're going to bring in the kingdom with dialogue, you're not going to do it," he clarified. "It isn't going to happen. But it can keep things from escalating." He interjected that this approach has led to productive discussions with prominent political and religious leaders in the Muslim world. "What I don't talk about publicly is the talks with people who call me behind the scenes," he said. "On the other hand – it's going to sound like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, but I'm not, I believe this – the Bible says evil has to be opposed. Evil has to be stopped," Warren continued. "The Bible does not say negotiate with evil. It says stop it. Stop evil. Hitler could not be negotiated with. And there are some people you cannot negotiate with." Warren argued there are many different kinds of Muslims in the world, and he's met a sampling, from those "who wanted to cut my throat" to those who feel "like a brother." "Al-Qaida no more represents Islam than the Ku Klux Klan represents Christianity," he contended. "Actually, if you study the background of al-Qaida, they were influenced by the same people who influenced Hitler. It was a lot of secular writers and Nietzsche and nihilists and stuff like that." Many of his critics take exception to that inference about Islam and further argue that agreeing to "excesses" in the war on terror and apologizing for the Crusades actually reinforces al-Qaida and other movements that use the claims as pretexts for their global jihad. "Well, I understand that argument," Warren said. "I disagree with it, because I'm not about to defend something that wasn't Christianity. And the Crusades weren't Christianity. Not as I see it. Then why apologize? "I do apologize, because I apologize for anything done in the name of Christ, that Jesus would disavow," he said. "I think Jesus would have disavowed the Crusades. Because the Crusades were largely about territorial land and not even about a personal relationship with Christ." Critics also argue the Crusades were a defensive response to Islamic jihad, and today Muslims are the aggressors in most of the world's hot spots. Muslims aren't apologizing for this, yet the letter to the Islamic leaders essentially puts Christians in the position of taking the blame. "I'm not interested in what the radicals will do with that statement," Warren said. "I'm interested in what the far-more majority of moderates will do with it, and say, Hey, maybe we should listen to this guy Rick Warren." I'm sorry Warren said apologies actually are an important part of his evangelism strategy, noting how the approach can disarm antagonism. He pointed to one of the speakers at Saddleback's AIDS conference, David Miller, a founder of ACT UP, who he "led to Christ, simply because I started with an apology." Two years ago, at the first "Global Summit on AIDS and the Church," Warren recalls Miller came up to him "spittin' nails." "He was so angry, he was ready to knock my head off," said Warren, who remembered Miller telling him he had always hated the Christian church. "Now, I could have been defensive back, but I said, 'David, I'm sorry, I want to apologize to you for any meanness that's been said to you in the name of Christ,'" Warren said. "And it was like I punched him in the gut," Warren continued. "You could have knocked the wind out of his sails. Like I just popped the balloon. And then, here, two years later, after this relationship, I'm going to baptize him." Not about the debate On global warming, Warren said he didn't endorse the "Evangelical Climate Initiative," as others did, to assert humans are causing it. "I don't even care about that debate so much as I care that Christians should be at the forefront of taking care of the planet," he said. "And actually, you tell me which side you want to be on, and I'll tell you which reports to read. OK. I can show you noted scientists who tell you we are near disaster, and I can show you noted scientists you say there is no problem at all." Warren said he does not support the Kyoto Protocol, an agreement rejected by the U.S. requiring radical emission reductions opponents say would destroy economies and harm the poor – "not at all do I agree with it." "I didn't sign on to say, I believe all things that the radical environmentalists believe. Not at all," he said. "I just thought Christians ought to be saying, We care about the planet too." Christians, he said, should be leading the move to take care of the Earth "with biblical principles, not political principles. And a lot of people are making this a bouncing ball right now. "I think a lot of people read into my signature on that that I bought into everything that's out there," he said. "I certainly don't. I don't at all. Blogs copy blogs Warren contended some criticism is simply baseless, charging many "don't do their due diligence on research." The Robert Schuller "mentorship," for example, likely originated with a statement the Crystal Cathedral pastor made on CNN's "Larry King Live," he said. But Warren insisted he's met Schuller only a couple of times and never had a one-on-one conversation with him. The claim, he said, was furthered by author George Mair in a biography called "A Life with Purpose" then spread like wildfire among Internet blogs. "In the first place, this guy is not even a Christian, never talked to me, never talked to any staff member, never talked to any member of my family, and in the book claimed that he did," Warren said. "He flat-out lied." Warren pointed out Mair is also the author of celebrity tomes such as "Paris Hilton: The Naked Truth" and "Oprah Winfrey: The Real Story." "What he does is he finds, quote, celebrities, and churns out a quick book," Warren said. The book was rife with errors from secondary sources, including the wrong number of children and wrong hometown, Warren argued. "He said my model was Norman Vincent Peale. I've never met Norman Vincent Peale. I've never even read a book written by Norman Vincent Peale," said Warren. "A lot of Christians then took and read that stuff, reported it on a blog, blogs copy blogs copy blogs copy blogs. And it's kind of like spreading a feather pillow, you can't get all the feathers back." Warren said he has discussed with Billy Graham how to handle criticism. "The general policy is, as much as possible, you don't respond," he said. "And so, I have to live with a lot of misconceptions about the thing with Schuller." http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59110 FAIR USE NOTICE: This blog contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of religious, environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

Rick Warren: 'I never wanted fame'

The Falling Away - False Teachers - Evangelicals Riding the Beast But pastor with global vision says he 'loves making an influence' EDITOR'S NOTE: This is the second of a three-part series based on an interview with Rick Warren at his Saddleback Church in Southern California, which he and his wife of 30 years, Kay, founded in 1980 with one family. In part one, Warren responded to critics among his fellows evangelical travelers. In part two the senior pastor – called by Newsweek one of "15 People Who Make America Great" – discusses how he handles fame, his unconventional approach to ministry and his visit last year with Syrian leader Bashar Assad. In part three, he responds to concerns about the pitfalls of partnering with government and his massive AIDS initiative. WORLDNETDAILY - By Art Moore - December 12, 2007 LAKE FOREST, Calif. – Rick Warren says he never wanted fame or celebrity, but when murder, bewilderment and grief engulfed a missionary base and church in Colorado this week, national media looked to the Southern California megachurch pastor to help make sense of it. Whether or not there is such a thing as "America's pastor" or an "evangelical spokesman," the man called by Newsweek one of "15 People Who Make America Great" fits the bill for many mainstream journalists. "I hate fame, but I love making an influence," Warren told WND. "So you put up with some stuff." Some of that "stuff" is the criticism he receives from fellow evangelicals who accuse him, among many things, of preaching a watered-down gospel and appeasing dictators, Muslims, academic elites and left-leaning politicians. In part one of an interview with WND at his Saddleback Church in Orange County, California, Warren said many of his critics "don't understand that I am fundamentally, foremost an evangelist." "It's what I care about. I don't care about politics, I don't care about political correctness, I don't care about what established groups want me to do," he said. "I care about getting people into heaven." Warren emphasized he never sought to lead a movement. "All I wanted to do was pastor my church for life," he said. " … So nobody is more surprised at where I've been. And these things that crack me up in the magazines – it's laughable to my kids. Children and grandchildren "keep your feet to the floor," he said. "Everybody should mow their own lawn, change diapers, wash dishes, like I do. I don't have any maids, don't have any servants. You know, you just keep your head on the ground." Warren said that when people ask him how he keeps his focus amid the temptations that come with power, he asks them to "pray that I'll have integrity, humility and generosity." They are the "antedotes to the three traps that leaders typically fall into," he said, lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life – or "passion, possession and position." After the windfall from sales of his books – "The Purpose-Driven Life" is regarded as the best-selling hardback of all time – Warren dropped his salary and paid the church back for 25 years of wages. He and his wife, Kay, give a "reverse tithe" of 90 percent of their income and live on 10 percent. But with 22,000 filling the 120-acre Saddleback campus on weekends, ministries in 167 countries and a global "P.E.A.C.E. plan that aims to conquer the world's five biggest problems, he's aware of being perceived as an "empire builder." "If I wanted a big name I would have gone on TV," he said, arguing Saddleback "may be the only church of the 10 largest in the country that doesn't televise its services." When Saddleback was founded in 1980 with just seven people, he "didn't want to turn the church into a studio." "I don't want to be a celebrity," Warren said. "And on top of that, if I put my sermons on television, I compete with other churches, I don't help them." Warren explained he's a fourth-generation pastor, following his father, grandfather and great-grandfather, who came to faith in Jesus Christ under legendary British evangelist Charles Spurgeon. A brother, uncle and brother-in-law also are pastors. "So I love pastors, and the pastors I care about the most are not the megachurch pastors," he said. "It's the real pastor. The guy in a 75-member church … the kind of church I grew up in all my life. If you open up 'The Purpose-Driven Church' book, you see it's dedicated to bi-vocational pastors." The "heroes," he said, are the guys "out there flipping burgers during the week or getting a car mechanic shop in order to put food on the table and then trying to feed spiritual sheep on the weekend." With that in mind, he said, instead of going on TV, he decided to put his sermons on the Internet in 1992, prior to the advent of Netscape and Explorer. Since then, hundreds of thousands of pastors have downloaded Saddleback sermons from around the world. "I help these guys who have no Bibles, many times, no books," Warren said. "They have no college education, no high school education and no seminary education. So they're getting my material and it's a simple format. They go, 'I can teach this.' And I've had guys around the world tell me, 'Rick, you're the only training I've ever had.'" More than 500,000 ministers have been trained worldwide by Saddleback. A similar intensive discipleship process, he said, is applied to 2,800 small groups that meet in homes in a 100-mile swath that touches every city in Southern California, from Malibu in the north to Carlsbad in the south. Based on a biblical model, he said, more than 7,500 church members have been sent out on mission teams in the past three years, with a goal to commission 10,000 more by the end of 2010. The teams, he believes, are evidence that Saddleback's approach is bearing fruit. "How do you get people so mature that they will go to the mission field on their own and pay their own money and all that?" he asked. "It takes years of discipleship, years of maturity." What we're all about Warren said the biggest misunderstanding about Saddleback Church and his ministry is that what happens on Sunday morning is the main thing. Many learn about Saddleback from secular journalists, he said, who assume the big crowd on weekends is "what we're all about." But the thousands who come Saturday and Sunday are just a "funnel," he said, to small-group ministry. Warren said his aim was to create something inexpensive and reproducible – evangelism-oriented meetings that would draw the unchurched. The current goal, he said, "is to reach 10,000 more people for Christ in the next 40 months here by the end of 2010." "A crowd is not a church," he said. "A crowd can be turned into a church, and you have to have a big crowd to get a big church. But a crowd is not a church. So we don't kid ourselves." Many large churches, he said, "spend all their time and all their money and all their energy on enormous props and videos." "We don't do that at all," he said. "We don't do skits. We have testimonies on Sunday morning." Nevertheless, the sermons are not light fare, Warren insisted. "I did a 12-week series on the doctrine of grace. I've done series on the incarnation. I've done series on sanctification," he said. "I've done series on the fruit of the Spirit, through books of the Bible. I once taught through the book of Romans. It took me two and a half years. "But even when I'm doing those, I relate it in a way that people who have no background could understand it," he explained. "'Oh, I get that. I'm not a believer, but I get that. It makes sense.'" He also pointed out Saddleback practices church discipline. "People have gotten kicked out of this church because they didn't pay their bills, because they maligned other people, because they didn't live a life of holiness," he said. "These are things that nobody even knows," said Warren. "(They say) if you're big, you must be shallow, you must be superficial; and actually, we have this discipleship process where we're moving people." A great church, he asserted, cannot be built quickly. "If you ever see a church that grows really fast, it means it's transfer growth," he said. "It means, 'What's the hot act in town, let's all go over there.' And it's not really growth, it's swelling. It's trading fish from aquarium to aquarium, instead of fishing for men." Saddleback's size is for one simple purpose, Warren said: "We grow bigger because people need the Lord … we grow because people without Christ go to hell." All things to all men Warren said if his critics would know he is mostly "about getting people into heaven," they would understand why, for example, he was willing to go to Syria one year ago and meet with its terrorist-supporting leader, Bashar Assad. "I did not go to Syria for political purposes. Not at all," he said. "I went for one reason, will they let me do the P.E.A.C.E. plan in Syria? Can I build enough of a bridge so I will not be persecuted by doing the P.E.A.C.E. plan, and can I help the Christians there?" P.E.A.C.E. is an acronym for "Plant churches, Equip servant leaders, Assist the poor, Care for the sick, and Educate the next generation." It calls for "church-based small groups to adopt villages where spiritual emptiness, selfish leadership, poverty, disease, and ignorance keep people from experiencing the kind of life God wants them to have." The fundamental reason he is willing to meet with the leaders of rogue states such as North Korea or Iran, he said, is "because Jesus said, 'Go into all the world.' Not into all the politically correct world. But he even said, 'Love your enemies.'" He cited the Apostle Paul, who said, "I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some." "I know people, bloggers, who think that's heresy," he said referring to online critics. "I know people who if I wrote that – and they didn't know it was in the Bible – they would say the guy is a chameleon." Paul, he argued, was not a chameleon, he was being strategic. "Jesus said be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. And what the church is, usually, is harmless as a dove," he said. "A lot of things that are being done today in the name of Christ are very unwise. Rather than opening doors for the Gospel, they are closing doors for the Gospel. They are giving us a black eye." He said, like the Apostle Paul, most of the criticism directed against him is from "the religious people." "It comes from people who are supposed to understand the gospel of grace but don't act very gracious," he said. Warren noted one secular magazine called him "'the evangelical that humanists love,' or some stupid thing like that." That's fine with him, he said, "because I want them to know the savior I know." "My job is not to save America," Warren said. "My job is to save Americans. And my job is not to promote a public policy. My job is to win people to Christ that Jesus died for, whether they live in Iran or Afghanistan or Argentina or wherever." Damascus Road experience Warren insisted the only mistake he made in Syria during his November 2006 visit was that he should not have allowed a photo op at the end of his meeting with Assad. The state news agency issued a report that Warren contended was not accurate. It read: "Pastor Warren hailed the religious coexistence, tolerance and stability that the Syrian society is enjoying due to the wise leadership of President al-Assad, asserting that he will convey the true image about Syria to the American people." Warren also was quoted saying, "Syria wants peace, and Muslims and Christians live in this country jointly and peacefully since more than a thousand years, and this is not new for Syria." But Warren's critics say, regardless of whether the state Syrian report was true, he was captured on a 50-second home video walking down a Damascus road mentioned in the book of Acts, Straight Street, saying Syria is "a moderate country, and the official government rule and position is to not allow any extremism of any kind." In the video, which was briefly posted on YouTube, Warren said, "Syria's a place that has Muslims and Christians living together for 1,400 years. So it's a lot more peaceful, honestly, than a lot of other places, because Christians were here first." Warren argued that when he suggested there was freedom of religion in Syria, he didn't mean everyone had the freedom to convert to Christianity. Christians are "actually meeting above ground, they are not in secret, I've been in their churches," he said. "The problem is we've got to get them moved to the next step, which is the freedom of conversion," he contended. "It's quite different than in many places I've been … I won't mention the countries, but I've been in those countries where you can't even meet above ground," Warren said. "Every time I go to those countries, I have to go in secret." He argued the 2006 Open Doors' World Watch List of countries that persecute Christians ranked Syria a relatively low 47th and notes that before his trip, he consulted the president of Open Doors, a member of his church who used to be on the Saddleback staff. Explaining the context of the home video, Warren said his walk down Straight Street came just after he was granted virtually unprecedented permission by an imam to enter a crypt at Damascus' largest mosque, where an old church is said to hold relics from John the Baptist. The imam, he said, approached him as he prayed with his colleagues and said, "I sense in you you are a man of peace." "My host said, nobody gets in that crypt, residents, kings, muftis, nobody gets in that crypt," Warren recalled. "So I had just had that experience and I walk outside, and I'm walking down the street with a group of pastors and a home video captures me on a video and sees, 'What do you think about freedom of religion?' Well, it's obvious nobody is picking me up right here. I'm walking down the street with a group of pastors, nobody is persecuting us. Now, that did not mean there is the freedom to convert. That's the next step." Warren said the invitation from Assad came after the Syrian leader found out he was in the country. "What am I going to say? No, I'm not going to meet him? I didn't go there to meet him, it wasn't even on the agenda." Warren said there were no photographers there during the meeting with Assad, but film crews were brought in at the end for a photo op. "And then the government agency, of course, put out their pro-Syrian statement, 'Rick Warren thinks we're sliced bread,' you know, that kind of stuff," he recounted. Warren said WND editor and CEO Joseph Farah then wrote an initial column based on information from the Syrian state news story. "I happened to be in Rwanda from there," Warren said. "I wrote Joseph and said, 'Joseph that's just not true. I didn't say those things. You're reading a statement.' And he wrote back in a very accusatory letter that said, 'Well, I can't wait to see the video.' In other words, he didn't believe me. "I didn't lie at all. He didn't stop to check it out," Warren insisted. "And so he then writes six columns on the basis of his assumption. There was no video of that meeting. At the end, they took a picture, so he chose to believe what the government said, instead of believing me." Farah said he stands "by every word I wrote in those columns." "After all this time and all these different explanations, I am 100 percent convinced everything I wrote was accurate," Farah said. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59161 FAIR USE NOTICE: This blog contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of religious, environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

Rick Warren: AIDS too big for church alone

The Falling Away - False Teachers - Evangelicals Riding the Beast Traditional values challenged in unusual alliance to combat disease Part 3 EDITOR'S NOTE: This is the third of a three-part series based on an interview with Rick Warren at his Saddleback Church in Southern California, which he and his wife of 30 years, Kay, founded in 1980 with one family. In part one, Warren responded to critics among his fellows evangelical travelers. In part two the senior pastor – called by Newsweek one of "15 People Who Make America Great" – discussed his fame, his unconventional approach to ministry and his visit last year with Syrian leader Bashar Assad. In part three today, he responds to concerns about the pitfalls of partnering with government and his massive AIDS initiative. WORLDNETDAILY - By Art Moore - December 13, 2007 LAKE FOREST, Calif. – When Rick Warren takes on a problem, the scale often seems limited only by the size of the planet. Five years ago, his wife, Kay, responded to a sobering magazine article about the plight of 12 million AIDS orphans in Africa, and now their 22,000-strong Saddleback Church in upscale Orange County, California, has completed its third annual "Global Summit on AIDS and the Church," drawing figures such as Sen. Hillary Clinton, United Nations officials and President Bush's global AIDS coordinator to unite against the pandemic. Warren says the problem of AIDS, with an estimated 33 million infected with HIV, is too big for the church alone, and he advocates the building of a public, private and faith partnership. The venture has created unusual alliances, underscoring the conflicting approaches to a problem inseparable from issues of sexual morality. While the traditional teaching of Warren's Southern Baptists heritage emphasizes abstinence outside of marriage, governments and other secular institutions generally have adopted what they consider a "pragmatic approach" that refrains from judgment and seeks simply to keep people alive based on the belief that youth inevitably will engage in sexual activity. Speaker Pauline Muchina, senior women and AIDS advocacy officer with UNAIDS in Washington, D.C., told the summit AIDS must be challenged with a "comprehensive" program that includes condom promotion, and she condemned the traditional Christian teaching of male leadership in marriage as a major cause of violence against women. Muchina, a native of Kenya's Rift Valley, told WND, however, she has no problem working with the Warrens. "I only get anxious when [evangelicals] start condemning people who are advocating for a comprehensive HIV prevention including the use of condoms," she said, "and so far, Kay and Rick have both said to me, and to other people here at the conference, we have to have a comprehensive HIV prevention strategy." Asked to respond to Muchina's remarks, Warren told WND he does support condom distribution for prostitutes in impoverished, high-risk AIDS regions such as Africa and India. "I want to keep them alive long enough that I can win them to Christ," he said. "If they're dead, it's too late. The good news is only good news if it gets there in time." Warren said that when his wife came back from a trip to India, she told him of visiting a red light district with an estimated 30,000 prostitutes. Most of the women, he said, were sold into the work by husbands, fathers or brothers. "I've never met a prostitute who wanted to be a prostitute," said Warren. "I'm sure there are some out there, but in all my travels around the world, every one of them said, 'If I could make money in another way, I'd do it.'" Warren said that's why his church started a program in Kenya to teach sewing and haircutting, enabling 16 women to leave prostitution. "It goes back to my fundamental value," he said, "that there is something more important than keeping a rule – it's winning people to Christ." Muchina, however, used the same argument for promoting condom use among unmarried people. "If you want to continue preaching to people to live a different life, you have to keep them alive by giving them skills and adequate information for protecting themselves from HIV," she said. 'My job is to change behavior' Asked if he specifically supported promoting condoms to unmarried people, Warren replied, "My personal thing is I'm not going to give a condom to a kid. I'm not going to do that." He said, however, he can partner with people who do believe that, pointing out, for example, he can work with Catholics who don't even believe in condom use for married couples. "What I try to do is work with people to the degree that I can without compromising my convictions," he said. "As a pastor, my job is to change behavior," Warren emphasized. "Government cannot change behavior. So I don't expect government to agree to my commitments. They're going to go out there and they're going to look for the easiest non-behavior-change ways to slow it. I don't expect them, and I'm not going to spend all my time trying to change them. I'm going to be training pastors how to teach behavior change." Another speaker at the AIDS summit, Mark Dybul, President Bush's global AIDS coordinator, told WND the White House position is that "you need everything" to battle the pandemic. "The most effective methods to avoid HIV/AIDS – our guidance is very clear on this – are to abstain from sexual activity or to be faithful to an HIV-negative partner," Dybul said. "That's 100 percent protection. Correct and consistent condemn use is not a 100 percent protection. But it's a fact that people become sexually active, and so when they do, they need to make sure that they are protecting themselves and protecting others." Dybul explained the Bush administration "works with some groups that have certain views and others have other views, and then, put as a whole, you have the whole picture." "We respect the views and the values of everyone we work with, and we allow them to do what they do, and the success that they have in the populations they reach," he said. "So we have a much broader view that includes all the approaches to tacking HIV/AIDS." Dybul emphasized, however, the goal of an "HIV-free generation" won't be reached "until young people change the way they behave, and that means respecting themselves, respecting others. And when you do that, that means boys don't abuse girls, that means that you refrain from sexual activity until you've found someone you love and are with and you remain faithful to that person. "That's how we are going to tackle this epidemic," Dybul said, "and that's why we need work with the churches, and that's why we need to work with the traditional leaders." UNAIDS' Muchina said it's important that each side in the debate does not condemn the other. "I don't condemn them, they don't condemn us," she said. "We are all working on the same problem but working from different approaches, because this is a huge problem that has to be addressed from all levels." Muchina, nevertheless, found deficiencies in what she viewed as the conventional evangelical response. "You don't just tell them if you're not married don't do it," she told WND. "What about the other side, that sex is a gift from God, and this is how it's supposed to be done, and if you ever find yourself in a compromising situation, this is what you do to protect yourself from getting infected? "That's a moral obligation for us, for churches, for government, for families," she said. "I want my children to be alive." 'Our processes are pretty bureaucratic' At the conference, Kay Warren said her church is urging all of the presidential candidates to expand the Bush administration's $30 million Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief. But Rick Warren told WND he's conscious of the control and coercion attached to government money and for that reason accepts no government funding. "We work directly with private donors in the church," he said. "Any time you have money involved there are going to be issues, so that's just a very important concern." He conceded, however, that he believes government has a necessary role in paying for medications, such as anti-retrovirals used to treat AIDS that could cost $10,000 to $20,000 a year per person. "The church is never going to have that," Warren said. "Churches are poor around the world. But they have the people. "We bring the manpower," said Warren. "Even if you've got the meds, you can't get them to the people unless you have a network." Dybul said he's aware of the concerns churches and other private groups have in partnering with government – "that you can draw away from the mission of a lot of small organizations by building a bureaucracy." One approach the Bush administration is trying, he said, is to develop a consortium of faith-based organizations that designate one or two of the partners as the liaison with the government, "so that the rest of the partners can stick to their mission." But he conceded "our processes are pretty bureaucratic." "The fact of the matter is we have to be accountable to the taxpayer," Dybul said. "So we need to know where the money went. Congress needs to know where it went. "We'd like to streamline them as much as possible," he continued. "But there is a real limit, just because of government rules." Dybul, who has been public about his homosexuality, said his personal life has no bearing on his job. "My life actually is as a physician and researcher who has been doing global AIDS work for 20 years," he said. "That's what I bring for my expertise. I also bring a compassion and care for the young orphans, vulnerable children that are suffering from any disease, including HIV/AIDS." In the closing moments of the summit, before inviting HIV patients to the stage for prayer, Warren explained how he viewed the event and the massive effort that surrounded it. "We didn't do this for a cause," he said. "We do this for a person. We do it for Jesus Christ. And if you want to know how much Jesus loves people with AIDS, you look at the cross, with arms outstretched and nail-pierced hands," Warren said, stretching out his own arms. "Jesus says, this much, this much, this is how much I love the world. This is how much I love people with AIDS. I love people so much it hurts. I'd rather die than live without these people. I want them to know me and my love for them." http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59181 FAIR USE NOTICE: This blog contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of religious, environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.